[j-nsp] MIC-3D-4XGE-XFP in a MX104?

[Tim St. Pierre]

Hello,

As anyone ever put a 4XGE MIC card in a MX104? Only the 2XGE card is
supported obviously, but I'm curious to know what would happen if
someone did? Is it just oversubscribed? Would it not work at all?

-Tim
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Tim St. Pierre
System Operator
Communicate Freely
289-225-1220 x5101

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[Saku Ytti]

Hey Tim,

Simple answer, not possible, as you need PHY and 4x10GE does not have
one, while 2x10GE does have one.





Longer answer.

This is quite interesting question. I'll first explain why the answer
is decidedly 'not possible on MX80'. Trio MQ WAN side can operate as
SERDES or 4x10GE PHY. which can drive XFP ports directly. On MPC cards
and MX80 the front-plate 4x10G use the PHYs on MQ. Rest of the ports
on MX80vsit on 'fabric' side, which can only run as SERDES. To attach
any more ports than 4x10GE on-boardvports to MX80, you need chip to
talk to the fabric side, which is SERDES only, you need some chip to
interface with SERDES and offer PHY (IX chip.

So 4x10GE MIC is simpler, stupider (And lower BOM) than 2x10GE MIC, as
it does not have IX chip at all, as PHY is driven by MQ. Where as
2x10GE MIC has IX chip and PHY. This allows us to put the 2x10GE
interfaces on the 'fabric' side of the MQ.

Now for reasons I don't fully understand MQ PHY actually cannot drive
SFP+, only XFP. So MX104 is using IX chip and external PHY to drive
the on-board SFP+. Technically it /could/ sit on 'fabric' side, and
you could wire the box so that on WAN side you can attach 4x10GE XFP
MIC. However I'm almost certain that the on-chassis SFP+ ports are
still connected on the WAN side, so reason why it wouldn't never work
on MX104 is same as MX80, no PHY on the 4x10GE XFP MIC.

Post by Tim St. Pierre
Hello,
As anyone ever put a 4XGE MIC card in a MX104? Only the 2XGE card is
supported obviously, but I'm curious to know what would happen if someone
did? Is it just oversubscribed? Would it not work at all?
-Tim
--
--
Tim St. Pierre
System Operator
Communicate Freely
289-225-1220 x5101
_______________________________________________
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp

[Tim St. Pierre]

Well, that clears that up.

Seems odd they would choose the same form factor for incompatible
designs, but that explains why the 2-port card is more expensive.

Thanks!

Post by Saku Ytti
Hey Tim,
Simple answer, not possible, as you need PHY and 4x10GE does not have
one, while 2x10GE does have one.
Longer answer.
This is quite interesting question. I'll first explain why the answer
is decidedly 'not possible on MX80'. Trio MQ WAN side can operate as
SERDES or 4x10GE PHY. which can drive XFP ports directly. On MPC cards
and MX80 the front-plate 4x10G use the PHYs on MQ. Rest of the ports
on MX80vsit on 'fabric' side, which can only run as SERDES. To attach
any more ports than 4x10GE on-boardvports to MX80, you need chip to
talk to the fabric side, which is SERDES only, you need some chip to
interface with SERDES and offer PHY (IX chip.
So 4x10GE MIC is simpler, stupider (And lower BOM) than 2x10GE MIC, as
it does not have IX chip at all, as PHY is driven by MQ. Where as
2x10GE MIC has IX chip and PHY. This allows us to put the 2x10GE
interfaces on the 'fabric' side of the MQ.
Now for reasons I don't fully understand MQ PHY actually cannot drive
SFP+, only XFP. So MX104 is using IX chip and external PHY to drive
the on-board SFP+. Technically it /could/ sit on 'fabric' side, and
you could wire the box so that on WAN side you can attach 4x10GE XFP
MIC. However I'm almost certain that the on-chassis SFP+ ports are
still connected on the WAN side, so reason why it wouldn't never work
on MX104 is same as MX80, no PHY on the 4x10GE XFP MIC.

Post by Tim St. Pierre
Hello,
As anyone ever put a 4XGE MIC card in a MX104? Only the 2XGE card is
supported obviously, but I'm curious to know what would happen if someone
did? Is it just oversubscribed? Would it not work at all?
-Tim
--
--
Tim St. Pierre
System Operator
Communicate Freely
289-225-1220 x5101
_______________________________________________
https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/juniper-nsp

--
--
Tim St. Pierre
System Operator
Communicate Freely
289 225 1220 x5101
***@communicatefreely.net
www.communicatefreely.net

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[Eric Van Tol]

Post by Tim St. Pierre
Seems odd they would choose the same form factor for incompatible
designs, but that explains why the 2-port card is more expensive.

Also seems odd the 4-port MIC is listed as compatible on the MX80/MX104 on the Hardware Compatibility List. This is why I put zero trust in these sorts of tools when building systems. I can confirm that the MIC doesn't even show up in the hardware listing if you install it into an MX80.

-evt
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[Alain Hebert]

    Hi,

    The 2 port / 4 ports are in the list, but only the 2 ports show up
under MX80/104 and not the 4 ports.

https://www.juniper.net/documentation/en_US/release-independent/junos/topics/reference/general/mic-mx-series-supported.html

10-Gigabit Ethernet - 10-Gigabit Ethernet MICs with XFP -
*MIC-3D-2XGE-XFP* - 2 -  10.2 - 13.2R2

    By ya, at the end of the day, they is place for improvement.

    PS: We have 2 x 4GXE in stock for our future MX240+ because of this.

-----
Alain Hebert ***@pubnix.net
PubNIX Inc.
50 boul. St-Charles
P.O. Box 26770 Beaconsfield, Quebec H9W 6G7
Tel: [phone] http://www.pubnix.net Fax: [phone]

Post by Eric Van Tol

Post by Tim St. Pierre
Seems odd they would choose the same form factor for incompatible
designs, but that explains why the 2-port card is more expensive.

Also seems odd the 4-port MIC is listed as compatible on the MX80/MX104 on the Hardware Compatibility List. This is why I put zero trust in these sorts of tools when building systems. I can confirm that the MIC doesn't even show up in the hardware listing if you install it into an MX80.
-evt
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[Mark Tinka]

Post by Eric Van Tol
Also seems odd the 4-port MIC is listed as compatible on the MX80/MX104 on the Hardware Compatibility List. This is why I put zero trust in these sorts of tools when building systems. I can confirm that the MIC doesn't even show up in the hardware listing if you install it into an MX80.

This must have been a recently-introduced bug. I distinctly recall the
4-port MIC not being supported for the MX80 back in the day.

Mark.
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