[j-nsp] GPL licensed software in juniper products

Discussion:

Thomas Eichhorn

2012-06-07 19:27:11 UTC

Dear all,

has anybody here asked JNPR for the source code of the
GPL-licensed parts in their products? I currently just
wonder which all parts they have used and maybe if there
is some hidden web page containing that stuff.

I don't want to go snail mailing them, as there EULA
requires me - anybody with experiences in this?

Thanks,
Tom

Chris Adams

2012-06-07 20:04:19 UTC

Permalink

Post by Thomas Eichhorn
has anybody here asked JNPR for the source code of the
GPL-licensed parts in their products? I currently just
wonder which all parts they have used and maybe if there
is some hidden web page containing that stuff.

What do you think Juniper is distributing that contains GPL-licensed
software (and what is that software)?

--
Chris Adams <cmadams at hiwaay.net>
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.

Dan Young

2012-06-07 23:03:03 UTC

Permalink

Post by Chris Adams

What do you think Juniper is distributing that contains GPL-licensed
software (and what is that software)?

root at gate> show version
Hostname: gate
Model: srx100b
JUNOS Software Release [10.4R9.2]

root at gate> start shell
root at gate% grep --version
grep (GNU grep) 2.5.1-FreeBSD

Copyright 1988, 1992-1999, 2000, 2001 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO
warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

--
Dan Young <dyoung at mesd.k12.or.us>
Cascade Technology Alliance / MESD - Network Services
503-257-1562

Rubens Kuhl

2012-06-07 20:47:23 UTC

Permalink

Ian Bobbitt

2012-06-07 21:04:22 UTC

Permalink

Post by Rubens Kuhl

Their AX411 access point line, for one:

% ssh root at myap
root at myap's password:
# uname -a
Linux myap 2.6.21.5 #1 Tue Dec 7 05:54:10 EST 2010 mips64 unknown
#

Matt Yaklin

2012-06-07 22:05:16 UTC

Permalink

Post by Ian Bobbitt

Post by Rubens Kuhl

% ssh root at myap
# uname -a
Linux myap 2.6.21.5 #1 Tue Dec 7 05:54:10 EST 2010 mips64 unknown
#

"To the extent
portions of the Software are distributed under and subject to open source
licenses obligating Juniper to make the source code for such
portions publicly available (such as the GNU General Public License
(.GPL.) or the GNU Library General Public License (.LGPL.)), Juniper
will make such source code portions (including Juniper modifications, as
appropriate) available upon request for a period of up to three
years from the date of distribution. Such request can be made in writing
to Juniper Networks, Inc., 1194 N. Mathilda Ave., Sunnyvale, CA
94089, ATTN: General Counsel. You may obtain a copy of the GPL at
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html, and a copy of the LGPL
at http://www.gnu.org/licenses/lgpl.html ."

Rubens Kuhl

2012-06-07 22:51:15 UTC

Permalink

Humm, got in there when they acquired Trapeze.

Rubens

Tim Jackson

2012-06-07 22:53:51 UTC

Permalink

That's actuall pre-Trapeze...

Post by Rubens Kuhl
Humm, got in there when they acquired Trapeze.
Rubens
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Thomas Eichhorn

2012-06-08 02:21:31 UTC

Permalink

Well, they have much more than junos boxes:

- - IVE / UAC - booting a linux kernel
- - Space - booting a CentOS
- - NSM xpress, also linux based

And in all of them there is some GPL - and even
on the junos boxes - isn't the ntpd GPL-licensed?

Tom

Post by Rubens Kuhl

Juniper control-plane operating system is *BSD, so carrying a
Berkeley license, not GPL. Routing code is their own, and it
wouldn't make such sense to add something GPL to that mix... may be
they did, is there a component you think could be GPL ?
Rubens _______________________________________________ juniper-nsp
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Patrik Olsson

2012-06-08 08:25:04 UTC

Permalink

Post by Rubens Kuhl

Even though the parts of the "world" still running is remnants of
FreeBSD, the kernel is altered to be a realtime kernel.
So I am not arguing the GPL part, more arguing the *BSD... it is more or
less FreeBSD...

Patrik

Saku Ytti

2012-06-08 11:24:59 UTC

Permalink

Post by Patrik Olsson
Even though the parts of the "world" still running is remnants of
FreeBSD, the kernel is altered to be a realtime kernel.
So I am not arguing the GPL part, more arguing the *BSD... it is more or
less FreeBSD...

Do you have source to this? I'd love to read about it.

I've been under the assumption that the FreeBSD is rather slightly changed
and mostly just for bootstrapping. All the love happening inside RPD
process, which is operating system on its own, having own scheduling
(run-to-to-completion, ala windows3.1 or IOS) and own memory management.

So when JNPR developer builds feature, he decides how long it might run in
realistic config, and decides it'll never run super long, so he doesn't put
it to small pieces. But then client has longer community list than JNPR
expected and RPD times out during commit, as there is now way to stop the
process and do more important stuff in the mean time, like keeping ISIS or
BGP up.

Modern routing operating systems like NXOS, IOS XR and especially arista
EOS don't have to rely on the in-house developer to get scheduling right,
they trust that NIX developers have got scheduling right. If their in-house
process is too resource hungry, NIX kernel will interrupt it and run
something more important.

--
++ytti

Phil Mayers

2012-06-08 11:38:39 UTC

Permalink

Post by Saku Ytti

Do you have source to this? I'd love to read about it.

Not sure if you've seen this?

http://www.juniper.net/us/en/local/pdf/whitepapers/2000264-en.pdf

Saku Ytti

2012-06-08 12:32:12 UTC

Permalink

Post by Phil Mayers

Post by Saku Ytti

Post by Patrik Olsson
Even though the parts of the "world" still running is remnants of
FreeBSD, the kernel is altered to be a realtime kernel.

Do you have source to this? I'd love to read about it.

Not sure if you've seen this?

Rich. I've cut and pasted mentions of real-time.

--
This benefit is evident in Junos OS, which became a first commercial
product to offer hard resource separation of the control plane and a
real-time software data plane. Juniper-specific extensioddn of the original
BSD system architecture relies on multicore CPUs and makes Junos OS the
only operating system that powers both low-end software-only systems and
high-end multiple-terabit hardware platforms with images built from the
same code tree.
---

Multicore CPUs? Que
Loading Image...

----
Most notably, the capability to support a real-time forwarding plane along
with stateful and stateless forwarding models
---
This is under monolithic and microkernel paragraph, what does that even
mean, how does the OS even relate to forwarding. And certainly FreeBSD
isn't microkernel, and I don't really think it's even important (Cisco
would probably do well to standardize IOS XE, NX OS and IOS XR all to use
linux and same internal distribution. Don't think they can capitalize in
QNX in any way.

Then there is picture of RT core, on top of which there is FreeBSD. I only
have to think this is marketing to say there is 'real time forwarding'.
This might be true on software for J series where they used single chip I
think for forwarding and control-plane. But probably not true for branch
SRX, where forwarding plane and control-planes are just ran on different
cpus in the octeon.

At least I have 0 belief that there are any microkernel or real-time
elements added to FreeBSD, and I cannot see how they would bring anything
to you which you can capitalize on.

--
++ytti

Bjørn Mork

2012-06-08 11:41:20 UTC

Permalink

I don't think it ever *required* this. The text used "may", indicating
that this was an option but not necessarily the only one.

Anyway, the snail mail suggestion is not there anymore:
http://www.juniper.net/support/eula/

<quote>
17. Third Party Software. Any licensor of Juniper whose software is
embedded in the Software and any supplier of Juniper whose products
or technology are embedded in (or services are accessed by) the
Software shall be a third party beneficiary with respect to this
Agreement, and such licensor or vendor shall have the right to
enforce this Agreement in its own name as if it were Juniper. In
addition, certain third party software may be provided with the
Software and is subject to the accompanying license(s), if any, of
its respective owner(s). To the extent portions of the Software are
distributed under and subject to open source licenses obligating
Juniper to make the source code for such portions publicly available
(such as the GNU General Public License ("GPL") or the GNU Library
General Public License ("LGPL")), Juniper will make such source code
portions (including Juniper modifications, as appropriate) available
upon request for a period of up to three years from the date of
distribution. You may obtain a copy of the GPL at
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html, and a copy of the LGPL at
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/lgpl.html. Open source information and
information on contacting Juniper can be found at
http://www.juniper.net/support/products/ as applicable.
</quote>

So request the source the same way you would request an image, just like
the GPL gives you the right to. I.e., open a JTAC case. Did you try this?

Bj?rn

Wojciech Owczarek

2012-06-08 15:50:33 UTC

Permalink

Most, or probably all, tools modified for JunOS such as all the openssh
binaries, ftp, ping etc. with JunOS specific code (routing instance support
and such) are on BSD licence.

mtr for example, used for "traceroute monitor", which is GPL, doesn't have
any custom Juniper switches :)

I'm sure there wouldn't be any issues with getting Juniper to release
source code for anything GPL bundled with JunOS, but probably it would all
be vanilla code with any patches included in FreeBSD ports.

Regards
Wojciech

Post by BjÃ¸rn Mork

I don't think it ever *required* this. The text used "may", indicating
that this was an option but not necessarily the only one.
http://www.juniper.net/support/eula/
<quote>
17. Third Party Software. Any licensor of Juniper whose software is
embedded in the Software and any supplier of Juniper whose products
or technology are embedded in (or services are accessed by) the
Software shall be a third party beneficiary with respect to this
Agreement, and such licensor or vendor shall have the right to
enforce this Agreement in its own name as if it were Juniper. In
addition, certain third party software may be provided with the
Software and is subject to the accompanying license(s), if any, of
its respective owner(s). To the extent portions of the Software are
distributed under and subject to open source licenses obligating
Juniper to make the source code for such portions publicly available
(such as the GNU General Public License ("GPL") or the GNU Library
General Public License ("LGPL")), Juniper will make such source code
portions (including Juniper modifications, as appropriate) available
upon request for a period of up to three years from the date of
distribution. You may obtain a copy of the GPL at
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html, and a copy of the LGPL at
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/lgpl.html. Open source information and
information on contacting Juniper can be found at
http://www.juniper.net/support/products/ as applicable.
</quote>
So request the source the same way you would request an image, just like
the GPL gives you the right to. I.e., open a JTAC case. Did you try this?
Bj?rn
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--
-

Wojciech Owczarek